When a CMO and CTO of a Fortune 500 company moves out of her comfort zone, entire industries are bound to change, inspiring us all to expand our boundaries. Her fundamental message? Don’t get too comfortable!
For Patricia Corsi, Chief Marketing, Digital and Information Officer for Bayer Consumer Health, curiosity is the first step toward growth and innovation. Next comes bravery and then true discomfort: the place where she and her team have disrupted the metaverse and changed the way we speak about some taboo subjects.
Through a process called ‘Creative Unleash,’ she’s launched initiatives like Vagina University and a playfully practical solution to “workstipation” as workers return to the office. She and her teams are engaging and creating brand loyalty by not only creating arresting campaigns, but fundamentally improving the day-to-day lives of consumers.
“The beautiful thing about brands is that you can transform something that looks very meaningless to something very meaningful,” she says. “By understanding the role that your brands play in people’s lives, you can deliver something unexpected and wonderful.” Corsi and her teams are pulling this off with heart, soul, and more than a dose of eye-popping risk.
Because her industry is better known for traditional brand building than disruptive creativity, Corsi says, “we perpetuate a habit of being reactive about our health. Fast forward to COVID. We were all very scared. Health, vaccines, and science started being part of the dinner table conversation. And suddenly we see this opportunity to bring this conversation to the table, but not the way it was done before.”
The way Bayer did it was to acquire some direct-to-consumer, ecommerce-focused businesses that offered access to data and, through internal precision and programmatic approaches, allowed them to target more accurately and finely tune messaging. “We are now best-in-class on this,” Corsi says. “We’re now not serving any content to someone that is not pregnant about our pregnancy vitamins, which in the past had happened a lot.”
Fed by more precise data and inspired by a clear consumer appetite for more medical information, Corsi’s teams created a truly taboo-breaking program.
Learning that fewer than half of women in any country surveyed would use the word ‘vagina,’ even with their gynecologists, and understanding the implications for women’s health, Corsi’s team sprung into action.
“First, we made ourselves uncomfortable,” she explains. “We knew that we wanted to break the taboo. We have a process in Bayer that is something that I started doing in my days at Heineken that is called ‘Creative Unleash.’ Our partners come with ideas that there is no briefing, but it’s for the sheer love of our brands and knowing our strategic objectives and our consumers.”
One of their partners, an agency called AnalogFolk from the UK, brought in their idea for Vagina Academy. One word was changed to bring the program worldwide, and not the one that one might think. (They changed ‘academy’ to ‘university.’)
In fact, Corsi’s campaign was able to get the word ‘vagina’ decensored on both TikTok and Meta.
“I absolutely adore brands because brands can do that,” Corsi says. “Brands can go there and say ‘That’s why we need to uncensor this word, because this helps to educate people that without that, they will not be able to get that education.’”
Working off another consumer insight gleaned from the Twitterverse, Bayer partner BBDO created a campaign in the US called “Workstipation” that offers a novel solution to a newly identified downside of office life, having to poop while at work.
Speaking of retention, Corsi’s campaigns are more than brazen moves to counter body shame and marketing badassery—they’re effective at driving consumer engagement and brand loyalty.
Both campaigns reflect Corsi’s core value proposition: making consumers’ lives better. “We’re not doctors. We’re not discovering the cure for cancer or anything like that,” she says. “We’re about the things in life that are affecting people every day.”
In her view, it’s less about short-term shock value and more about making each move part of a longer-term strategy. “We should move from product only to product plus service, product plus digital connection; product plus ecosystem. This already changed the mindset. So you have a foot in the present and another foot in the future.”
She offers the example of aspirin (what she calls a ‘now’ product for people with heart problems) and the company’s Tiny Pocket campaign. It serves to remind people that having an aspirin in your pocket at all times can save a life (with a little help from brand ambassador Antonio Banderas). This is an educational benefit that consumers appreciate because it’s genuinely helpful.
“It’s my belief that you stick with the brands that care more about you, that stick with you, that do innovation that serves an unmet need.” And, not incidentally, changes consumers’ health habits from reactive to proactive.
She’s currently taking this short-term approach to building long-term brand loyalty by using gaming to educate young adults about vitamins.
As Corsi sees it, gaming is a natural fit for certain brands. More largely, marketing in the metaverse needs to be just that: a good, purposeful fit.
“What we’re doing today is to make sure that this is not the flavor du jour, that okay, we need to be in the metaverse,” she explains. “Doing the basics is super un-sexy, but it’s the most important thing for the day in, day out.”
In the healthcare space, safety and privacy are also concerns. So, while her Creative Unleash approach promises to continue disrupting the metaverse, she’ll be leading change with a clear sense of purpose and benefit to consumers’ daily lives.
For more insights from Patricia, including her Golden Rule of Retention, watch the entire episode below. (Full transcript is below the video.)
John Koetsier: Comfort zones are so comfortable, of course. People have them, so do teams. Organizations have them, even brands have their own comfort zones. But is it perhaps the case that stepping outside of our comfort zones intentionally, regularly, is perhaps one of the most important things we can do to truly connect with people, with customers, and reach our growth potential? Today, we’re chatting with the CMO and CTO of a Fortune 500 company. Welcome to “CleverTap Engage.” My name is John Koetsier.
Peggy Anne Salz: And I’m Peggy Anne Salz. And together, we profile executives in companies achieving meaningful, memorable, and clever customer engagement. In this episode, we’re chatting with Patricia Corsi. She is Chief Marketing Officer and Digital Officer at Bayer. Previously she worked at Sony, Kraft, Unilever, Heineken, a number of major brands, and achieved a number of major milestones because throughout her career, she received many honors, including Effie Advertiser of the Year, the 2020 Ad Latina Award, and the 2021 Adweek Top 30 CMO. Really interesting however, in addition to the achievements, is the empathy as part of the Unstereotype Alliance for Truth. She is a strong supporter of women and diversity in business, and I am so excited to welcome you, Patricia. Welcome to our show.
Patricia Corsi: Thank you very much. It’s wonderful to be here.
John Koetsier: We are pumped to have you. Let’s start here, Patricia, on your LinkedIn, you say you do at least one thing a week to make yourself uncomfortable. Why?
Patricia Corsi: The first thought I had is why not? Right. What do I have to gain versus what do I have to lose? And by the way, I’m on my three weeks uncomfortable because I’m learning how to do cross-stitch at the moment. But I like to keep myself fresh. I think it honors the values of courage, openness that I’ve always learned and curiosity that I talk a lot at home with my husband and my son, and not only with our teams, because the values they go across, right, from your house to your office and backwards. But I think one of the things is specifically in the area of marketing, I think it helps to keep you grounded and the ego at check at the door that whole time, because when you keep yourself uncomfortable, this means that you are opening yourself up to be vulnerable and do things that you are not good at. I’ve tried to learn [to play] the ukulele. I’m really bad with musical instruments. My husband is wonderful. Whatever he picks in his mind…he learns by himself.
So it was very vulnerable, very uncomfortable. But it grounds you a little bit because this is an area when you start receiving the accolades, you can start thinking that you are bigger than you are. And I think those things help me always keep myself grounded and humble, proud of a lot of things that myself, my family, our teams have achieved, but always very humbled that there is a path to go there. There’s a lot of hard work and there is this sense that there is so much to be learned yet; I find it an important part of how I am viewed as a leader, how I’m viewed as a person. So, yes, I can see a much bigger list of reasons why you should do it and fewer reasons why I should not do it.
John Koetsier: If you can’t put yourself in a situation where you’re not good at something, then you’re never going to try something new. And if you’re never going to try something new in the world that we’re in, I mean, it is all about trying new things and that’s about brands and marketing teams as well. I mean, there are so many new things, whether that’s privacy, whether that’s new technologies, whether it’s metaverse, whatever it is. How do you apply this same philosophy to your brand and your marketing team?
Patricia Corsi: As I mentioned before, I think there is a line that goes from home to office and from office to home. I find it very difficult to be different people. So, you have different intensities maybe, but the same values, the same core. For example: curiosity. I think it’s a fundamental value and a fundamental skill and capability for a marketeer. If you want to better serve the customer with our brands, you need to have a minimum level of curiosity to know, what is it that I can do? What is that this brand can do to make a need and tap an unmet need to make that situation better, to present fun, to present pleasure, to bring people closer together, or to do very simple things like cleaning the house?
The beautiful thing about brands is that you can transform something that looks very meaningless to something very meaningful. And how can you, really by understanding the role that your brands play in people’s lives, deliver something that is unexpected and is a wonderful experience? I can tell you one simple thing from our house. I’m Brazilian, so I’ve lived most of my life in Brazil and half of my professional life outside of Brazil now. But there is this smell of the house that for me means that I’m home. And it’s very difficult to explain.
But I remember I’ve lived in one country where that specific brand of fabric conditioner and laundry detergent didn’t exist. And suddenly I could not feel at home because when I go to bed, my linen doesn’t smell like home. My towels do not smell like home. And I did the crazy thing of importing laundry detergent and fabric softener into Mexico, but sometimes by being curious to understand, there is always a story behind this. And this is what has fascinated me for the past 25 years about this craft. I absolutely love this part: that it doesn’t matter what’s your brand, it doesn’t matter what’s your industry. There is always a great potential to make someone experience different, better, bigger.
Peggy Anne Salz: I have to say, I really love that because it’s talking about what brands are and we’ve looked at that a lot, John. We’ve had people who say it’s all about the logo, and we’ve had people such as Raja Rajamannar, brands need to embrace audio, even smell made me think of it just now. There’s so much to do in business as a CMO and you have hundreds of businesses within Bayer Consumer Health. But it’s largely about that vertical. And that vertical faces some unique challenges. What are some of the challenges you face in the health, tech, wellness, abd healthcare verticals?
Patricia Corsi: I have the pleasure to work with Raja in the WFA, where we really worked together to drive benefits from the industry from diversity and inclusion to data privacy and brand safety. So, it’s a pleasure to hear his name. Look, when I was deciding to come to this industry, I was looking at this through the eyes of not every household in the world maybe will have a beer brand. Every household in the world will have people that have something where we can potentially improve their health daily. I find it very difficult [to imagine] that you have a house where people never had a headache or a cold or a skin issue or diarrhea. So, we are going to start talking about taboos very soon, so let me just break the ice with that.
John Koetsier: Done.
Patricia Corsi: Well, check, being uncomfortable so this is your test of being uncomfortable. I will bring it a couple more in the middle of the way. So, I found this super exciting because it’s an industry that is not well known for using creativity, using really strong foundations of brand building to bring the people that we serve in this journey with us, and the consequence is that we perpetuate a habit of being reactive about our health. Fast forward to COVID. We were all very scared. Health, vaccines, science start being part of the dinner table conversation. And suddenly we see this opportunity to bring this conversation to the table, but not the way it was done before. Because, to your question Peggy, one of the biggest barriers in this industry is this legacy both coming from a pharmaceutical view where there is no conversation with the consumers, only with the doctors. And everything is about product delivery and science and not about the whole story of the brand, the educational bit.
And again, using COVID as a reference, if you look at the search peaks for Google when COVID start, everyone was looking, how do I boost my immunity? So, suddenly that thing that people know, ‘I can have orange juice or vitamin C or this.’ So, then people realize it’s much more complicated: your sleep, your eating habits, your exercise habits. But as an industry, what have we done in the past 50 years to tell people that by taking this package, you will exponentially increase your life? So, I think this was the first barrier. There was this legacy of lack of creativity, lack of engagement, I dare to say, lack of excitement, which is one side of the challenge.
The second one is that challenge of the regulatory, of the restrictions. One of the things that I always liked about marketeers and great marketing is stories well-told; is that we work better with constraints. My best campaigns, my best innovation were never the ones that had the best budget or the biggest budget. They were the ones where I had probably the smallest team, the lowest amount of money, but there was a conviction and a passion to be unbeatable and stoppable. So, I’ve joined this because of that, because I look at those things, the challenges on regulatory, the challenges of a legacy, not brand focus, not consumer-focused, not customer-focused; that excited the heck out of me. So, I was hooked. And here I am.
John Koetsier: And here you are, absolutely, making us uncomfortable. And I know it’s going to get more uncomfortable. But before we get there, you’re talking about a massive vision. You are also part of a massive company. But health care is very personal, is very individual, right? How are you treating people as individuals and how are you using technology? I mean, I’ve got the smart ring, I’ve got the smartwatch, tracking fitness. I’m actually starting to record what I eat, all this other stuff, right? So, how do you take that big vision and this massive company with hundreds of business units and talk to somebody as an individual, treat them as an individual and give them exactly what they specifically need.
Patricia Corsi: So, the first way is through an inorganic way through acquisitions of business. So, we have acquired a couple of business on direct to consumer, a couple of e-commerce-focused business. And this is one way that you do that. The other way that we are doing that through our digital transformation program is really focusing on the lighthouses of precision, programmatic. How do we use data to really help the consumers to understand the better solutions for their health? One of the things that we have done, for example, we made an investment, a C series investment on a company that is called Ada Health that if you look online, if you want to do…I have symptoms, I want to understand what I have. They have, for example, ratings that are very similar to doctors.
In the world that we were living in, where people were afraid to leave the house because of their chances of getting contaminated with COVID or something else this is a really massive service for the consumer. So, this helps us to understand and also to develop our innovation because, of course, we use the data, what is happening. Because with COVID, for example, illnesses have increased a lot, tired eyes, too much screen, etc. So all those data, they give us information that can help us also to prioritize and do a bit I’m going to call mass precision from an innovation point of view. But also the data from media allows us to do precision from a content point of view in terms of creativity.
So, on that one, we really double down and we are now very proud of the team because we are now best-in-class on this, and we are now not serving any content to someone that is not pregnant about our pregnancy vitamins, which in the past had happened a lot. So, if someone is constipated and I’m serving them something for diarrhea, it’s probably very aggravating. So, these are the things that in the past you didn’t have. I go back and I remember the best thing in life, you had to do four things: TV, outdoor, print, and radio. This was the things you had to do as a marketeer. Now, you have the personas. You have all of the understanding on the different areas where you can approach. They have commonalities and is very exciting but is also very complex. So, we are navigating into this through these two things, acquiring some companies that we find really exciting. And also internally, really having very strong foundations on the precision and programmatic.
Peggy Anne Salz: Thinking about the relevancy in the creative and how important that is and how important it is to grasp that. Creatives motivate consumers, but you do it with attitude. You are not afraid to break the taboos. You said it a couple times already. We completely believe you. You are disruptive, and a perfect example is Vagina University. When I read about that, when I saw the clips and everything, I thought, wow. And not only that, you target young women using TikTok to do it. Tell us about that combination, the results, and also rewriting a couple rules at TikTok I understand.
Patricia Corsi: Yeah, I’m super excited about this program because this program represents two things that I absolutely adore again about this platform that being a CMO gives me. So, first, is the courage to do things that matter, not just for the sake of doing things, but they matter. So, when we went to understand the consumer and being curious about women, we discovered that one of the reasons that they were not getting the proper treatment in some cases on intimate vagina health is because they were so embarrassed to be in front of that shelf that said trash, that said anything related to their vaginas that they will pick the first thing that had a flower on it. So, how do you help them to understand how to treat themselves, etc.? And look, I come from quite a conservative country and if as a young girl I would say the word ‘vagina’ in my house, my mouth would be washed with soap for sure. So, even in the meeting myself, I had to break the internal personal taboo. Now, I see vagina like it’s rice, but it was difficult. It was really difficult.
Peggy Anne Salz: It’s so true though. I’m laughing, it’s so true.
Patricia Corsi: We got a really powerful piece of data saying the following: less than 50% of women in the UK, in Brazil, or any other country…with their gynecologist, they will not mention the word vagina. So, if in the confined, confidential place that you have with your doctor, you don’t feel confident to talk about this, how are you going to get better? How you’re going to live your life to the full potential? So we said, “Okay, we have to break this.” And first it starts with us. So first, we made ourselves uncomfortable. We got on with that. So, we knew that we wanted to break the taboo. We have a process in Bayer that is something that I started doing in my days at Heineken that is called creative unleash. Our partners come with ideas that there is no briefing, but it’s for the sheer love of our brands and knowing our strategic objectives and our consumers. And one of our partners, an agency called AnalogFolk from the UK, they said, “I have something here that is called Vagina Academy.” And it started with Vagina University, Vagina High. Vagina High I think it started. I said, look, “high” and “vagina”… I think probably is a bit too much, but…
John Koetsier: Two taboos at once.
Patricia Corsi: Maybe in the U.S. people would immediately get that is high school but outside of the U.S. maybe not that much. So, then it was transformed to Vagina Academy. But the first barrier started in the meeting. So, I was immediately hypnotized. I was very uncomfortable. I was very, very uncomfortable. I was hypnotized why this makes me so uncomfortable. Why, why, why? And then someone from the team said, “This looks great. This is exactly what we need to do. Can we change the name?” And at that point, I said, “That’s it. We can never change the name because the name is what drives people to…that stopping power to say, ‘Okay, let me talk about that.'”
And then, of course, wonderful partnership. We went to Brazil and.the country team really embraced that idea. That’s why we went there. And then the first thing we faced was a big issue with TikTok because they really wanted to do it. But they said,”‘well, but this word, this is censored on our platform. We cannot talk about the word.” They have to put a fore, you know, but it’s going to be censored. So, I was, “Okay, no, we have to change this.” And then it was an amazing partnership with TikTok that we have also in Asia, in many other campaigns, and they decensored the word ‘vagina’ on TikTok.
We have a fantastic set of influencers and teachers because this is all about education for women that really represent the diversity of Brazil, which is fantastic and amazing. So, then we moved to Italy because this program is moving to more and more countries. And again, we had censorship in Meta. And again, this campaign was able to take it out. And this is the role of brands, which I absolutely adore because brands can do that. Brands can go there and said, “That’s why we need to uncensor this word, because this helps to educate people that without that, they will not be able to get that education.” So, this is one of the ones that I really love and I’m super excited because it’s coming to the UK, it’s coming to Italy, and more countries to come. But it’s really an exciting one.
John Koetsier: People are conservative. People avoid risk. Brands avoid risk. Companies and marketers avoid risk. And for somebody to have, shall I say, the balls to do something that steps outside of those boundaries and to take that risk and to go for something to make it special. That one moment where somebody told you, “I love this, we need this. We have to change the name.” And you said, “No.” That’s a huge moment. That’s a huge moment. And that moment changed everything.
Patricia Corsi: There is something that transpires and inspires the rest of the team to be bold and to thrive. And again, to the discussion we were having before about trying new things: you would never know how far you can get. You would never know how beautiful it is. You never know how different it is if you don’t try things and you make mistakes. And I think this is one of the most important things that we have explored, and we have seen in this journey that is, it completely unlocked the courage of the team because of course, after that, then we just have, for example, in the U.S. right now, one campaign that is called Workstipation, and it comes from the insight that when people were in lockdown, one of the things they appreciate the most is that they could do number two by themselves in peace, right? So, there were so many people Tweeting,” the best thing of not being in the office is that I can pooh in peace.” And they found that…
John Koetsier: We’re breaking all the boundaries now, Peggy.
Patricia Corsi: I found this a tremendous insight so then as people are coming back to the office, this is an important function of your body. You need to pooh. So, we create…the team BBDO created this. It’s like posters that you roll out, you take to the toilet with you, and then you can cut. And in the US, you have those gaps where you can see people doing their stuff. So, you can cover the feet. There is one part that has a scent that by doing this, there is a flower scent that comes out. You have to have a marketing team that has the courage to do that for the benefit of the people that we serve. Because at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if we are embarrassed, if we’re not embarrassed if this breaks to the conventional rules that we’ve been raised, what can we say? What matters is that in health we have one job: that is to make people’s lives better as much as we can. We are not doctors. We are not discovering the cure for cancer or anything like that. We are about the things in life that are affecting people every day.
Peggy Anne Salz: I want to stay with that important feeling of the impact, the journey. I mean, you’re doing a great job in awareness and you’re making us aware here right now as well. I’m thinking about how someone described one of your campaigns. It’s gone from countering body shame to badassery. I mean, there’s no question that you have our attention. Can you just unpack a little bit about how you drive the deeper funnel engagement, the actions, the brand loyalty, the retention?
Patricia Corsi: It’s always the debate in marketing: the long term versus the short term. We had so many papers written about the importance of the brand building, brand equity, but then the countries feel pressured to deliver on the short term. So, I think this is a big debate. So, I have a couple of thoughts. First, of course, in health, we need to do the right thing for the people that we serve. It has to be. The people that we serve are a couple. So, we serve our business because our business, they foster the economic development in many areas. We serve our customers. We serve the people, the normal people like us. So, I think this is the first thing.
We need to make sure that we are not too visionary on things because the problems are happening right now. And the mentality is almost like a Tetris, right? It goes on one and it has to fit the other. So, the first mentality is we should move from product only to product plus service, product plus digital connection. So, product plus ecosystem. This already changed the mindset. So you have a foot in the present and another foot in the future. So, let me give you a simple example. With aspirin, that is a ‘now’ product, especially for the countries where we have a recommendation on heart health.
We have something on the now for people that have heart problems that help them to manage with the new ecosystem too. But we also have campaigns, for example, like the Tiny Pocket or the smallest health kit in the world, which reminds people that by having an aspirin with you in your pocket at all times, you can save a life. And one of our ambassadors that, by the way, is not paid because this is him telling the story of his life. It’s Antonio Banderas, where he says that he was saved because he got an aspirin under his tongue when he had a heart attack. So, these are things that you raise the awareness and then you say, okay, you can push people to go to the doctor, you can educate them. Say, “oh, maybe I’m not exercising. Maybe I’m not eating well. How was my cholesterol on my annual check-up?”
And then, of course, we keep delivering services and benefits, education benefits, innovation services, because this helps people to continue on the regimen. It’s my belief that you stick with the brands that care more about you, that stick with you, that do innovation that serves an unmet need. When there is this disconnect, Peggy, and I think this is a lot of the discussions we have about this wave of purpose that everyone is doing purpose, and suddenly only purpose matter is when some marketeers think, “Oh, I know what’s missing, I need a purpose campaign.” And it doesn’t happen like that, right? So, I find that the best way to find the purpose of a brand is to go back to the archives.
And if your purpose —and again doing a purpose campaign—to revert the sales drop is only serving one master of the three that I discussed. You’re just looking for the growth for the business. You’re not looking at your customers. You’re not looking at your consumer. So, this is how we look at this. Of course, each brand is different because it has different channels. Different countries have different connections with the consumer. But mainly what we try to do is the following, first, improve the habit and change this habit of reactive to proactive.
And this is, for example, just bringing another one in, why we are going into gaming with vitamins, because the best way to explain to… I have a young adult at home, 13 years old. There is no better way to connect with him about the subject than to say, “let me explain how this works to you in video game terms.”
And then we start building this more future-facing. But, in the short term, we have super exciting campaigns, we have innovation, we have better taste for the vitamins, we have better formats, more convenient. So it is that combination that, in this industry, is quite tough because the lead times are much longer than I was used to in confectionery. In confectionery, within three months I would have a new flavor. So, it has to be really well-planned and oiled to be able to deliver against that.
John Koetsier: We’ve talked a lot about where you come as a brand. You’re also breaking some molds and breaking some boundaries, and looking at metaverse. That’s interesting to me because we’re increasingly digital beings. We’re communicating right now digitally. People who are listening or watching are in the metaverse 0.01 or something like that right now and connecting digitally. What’s that mean for health brands in the future, and what’s that mean for you?
Patricia Corsi: What we are doing today is to make sure that this is not the flavor du jour, that okay, we need to be in the metaverse. Doing the basics is super un-sexy, but it’s the most important thing for the day in, day out. This is how you build consistency and trust in your brands with the people that matter the most. The flavor du jour we have to be careful because it’s metaverse here, it’s crypto there, it’s something else, etc. So, our rule of thumb is we will experiment, but someone will experiment and then will share the learning with everyone. So, we are much more looking towards the experience that is metaverse within gaming, like many, many things we have seen within gaming, because we believe that we have products that can serve a purpose there. Outside of these, we find that it’s probably not yet something that we found, what’s the place? But through gaming, we believe there is something in there.
We are also very cognizant that there are a lot of things on privacy and brand safety that we need to take care of. Each day you hear something different that is happening on discord, or roadblocks, etc., that will always be deemed as quite safe. So, we need to balance that out. So, still to come, I’m not going to review a lot because Creative Unleash also brings an idea on Meta. But what I can guarantee to you is that we are not going to have a thousand bloomy flowers, we are going to pick one. If it’s exciting, maybe it’s sound, who knows, maybe we’ll meet together again, and I will tell you about what’s the next phase.
John Koetsier: Love it.
Peggy Anne Salz: I sort of bet, John, she’s going to disrupt the metaverse, don’t you think?
John Koetsier: We’ll see.
Peggy Anne Salz: I have that feeling. I have that feeling. I hate to do it, but we have to start coming to a close and we ask all of our guests their golden rule of retention. So, I ask you the same.
Patricia Corsi: I thought about this long and hard, and I think it’s always paying attention and caring and being curious. Never, never get to a point where you think, I know this person. I know how they think, this is what they need and you go. And I think the retention is…I think it’s like relationships. As someone that is not a native English speaker, I love analogies because it helps me to tell a story, right. So, I look at these retention as dating. You don’t see someone and marry them. You go get to know them. You see the best in them. You see the worst in them. But there’s always something that connects you. And I think this is the retention is this thing about the brand and the person that is always connecting them, that can be what we offer from a science point of view. Can be what we offer from what is the good that we bring to their lives. Because sometimes relieving a pain is not the physical pain, you’re just enabling someone to live a life fully. So, this is where I believe the retention come. Retention comes from always being caring, being curious about it, and never take it for granted that you have it. Let’s go to the next one.
John Koetsier: It has been amazing. It has been wonderful. Peggy, take us away here. How do you feel after having this conversation?
Peggy Anne Salz: I feel as if my eyes have been opened in some direction. Retention I’m hearing it, it’s not a given. Keep working at it. I am also hearing, though, however, make yourself, challenge yourself, be a little bit uncomfortable and get to sort of love what I never loved, John, sort of the unknown, so.
John Koetsier: Absolutely.
Peggy Anne Salz: Thank you both for the show, I think.
John Koetsier: Absolutely. Absolutely. Love it. Thank you so much, Patricia.
Patricia Corsi: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to be here. I have to say, I had a lot of fun. Thank you for making this such a welcoming environment for someone like me, a Brazilian lost in Switzerland, working in healthcare, doing their best with the team to help people’s life every day. So thank you very much for this.
Peggy Anne Salz: Thank you, Patricia. I have to add, we talk about making experiences memorable. That’s what the show is about. You have completely fit the bill. Thanks so much for sharing.